A somewhat sad bit of memery

[anghara]

You paid attention during 91% of high school!

85-100% You must be an autodidact, because American high schools don't get scores that high! Good show, old chap!

Do you deserve your high school diploma?
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I just posted that because I think it's a sad commentary on the current state of education. "American high schools don't get scores that high"? That's TRAGIC. Because most of those qusetions are pretty basic. Where's Portugal? Which artist made "David" (there's a tendency to refer to the sculpture as "Michelangelo's David", which rather answers that question...)? Basic grammar, basic history, basic science?

And because I got a high score I "must be an autodidact"?

What do they TEACH in American high schools these days?...

And can the answer to this really be that I was blessed with a rounded and EUROPEAN education, and therefore I know what to call a century which contains a given year or whare the Magna Carta was signed?

Is any of this stuff useful in today's world? DOes it really matter to know these things? But if not them, then what? What is it that you're supposed to get out of high school actually knowing? And if the answer is "nothing much" then why bother making kids go there in the first place and endure exams, and quizzes and homework, and maintaing a high grade average?

There was a whole thread in my home newsgroup a while ago where one father insisted that his homeschooled kids learned "the things they were interested in" and were not forced to bother with any kind of basic curriculum. This boggles me. WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SAME WORLD, and I would like to think that the generations to come are being given an education on how to manage the planet when we're gone - but that doesn't seem to matter any more, at least in the particular scenario we were talking about, as long as as the kids in questions weren't being "Forced" to learn anything they didn't want to. Ye gods and little fishes. I hated maths, but it was mandatory for my generation, and I learned multiplication tables off by heart, and that means I can do basic simple calculations in my head without resorting to a calculator to divide something by three (trust me, I've seen it done). But things work TOGETHER. You can't be fascinated by history without learning enough geography to know where the history took place. You can't be interested in science without learning a little bit of mathematical underpinnings. You simply can't be allowed (and this is partly the author in me reacting, appalled) to say that you are not interested in reading.

I am still reeling from those "culmination projects" of graduating high-school seniors which I posted about a while back, to which I was part of the "jury" who was brought in to listen to the presentations. Projects which carried a huge weight in terms of being able to graduate, and yet those that I saw included a girl building an ottoman chair, a guy who restored an old car, and a "Scrapbook" of the history of a girl's town which consisted solely of photodopied pictures and photodopied captions, without a scrap of original work or writing, something that I would expect a twelve-year-old to be able to do in her spare time and not something that a graduating senior would trot out as a show and tell implying that she was qualified to graduate. One of the things they were supposed to tell us is what they learned from their projects - and most of them quoted things like "getting organised" - THIS, they went to high school to learn?... And one of the most common excuses was, well, "I didn't have time - I have wrestling/drama/yearbook/whatever, and that took up a huge amoung of my time..." Blink. BLink blink blink. Kids, if extracurricular activities are getting in the way of your education it's the activities taht should be curtailed, not the education.

Perhaps if the system was geared more towards that attitude we wouldn't get quizzes like the one that just awarded me the title of autodidact...

Comments

[dendrophilous.livejournal.com]

One suspects the writer of that meme might have been biased, or poking fun at the American public education system (which is awful in places, excellent in places).

I went to an American public high school and turned out ok in life in general, not just in memes.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

Well, I went to an American school, and I got the same score. And homeschooled kids still have to pass the GED if they ever want to get a job. In my opinion, it's as much the parents' fault as the school system if kids don't learn.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

OK - given a few responses -just how much actual choice do you get re. subject matter in an American high school? What are you doing aged, say, fifteen or sixteen, a year or two before graduation, in subjects like biology...history...a foreign language?

I'm genuinely interested. It's been a while since *I* have been in high school, obviously, but I remember most of it pretty clearly and I admit it might have been atypical to have dabbled in calculus in high school but we did in mine and I remember being one of the few people who DID recognise integration when the professor at my University maths course first put it on the blackboard...

What would you consider to be a basic education? What do you consider to be essential to know in terms of functioning in today's complex society...?

Ten Years Back

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

...keep in mind I graduated from HS ten years ago, but my US-centric edjumacation was fairly decent, comparatively speaking. It still managed to screw up my work habits by keeping me doing rote problems I found easy and boring waaaay longer than I had to, but I managed to get out of it with my love of learning more or less intact. This I attribute to a couple of first rate teachers, and I realise was more luck than the institution.

Grades 1-6 = Basic reading/writing, US/State history, very basic science, all art/music/PE courses were mandatory but tended to be broad in view, language class (only Spanish was available) was optional and was an immersive track. I declined to take the Spanish immersion programs.

Grades 7-8 = Mandatory: English, Math, History, Science, one Art class, one Language (I took German), one Computer course, one Music, one Communications class, two HomeEc courses (elective from four: Wood shop, Metal shop, Cooking, Sewing). After the first year, art/music/language/computers became electives, but of course, you still have to fill up your slots.

Grades 9-12 = We had to have four English classes, four Math classes, 4 history, 2 science, 3 PE (I got mine waived because of a broken leg), 1 Health class ALL mandatory before graduation. On top of that, we had arts classes requirements, which we could fill out with art, music, language, etc. We HAD to fulfill 32 credits and we could shuffle our courses around but we had to make the credit requirements before graduating. I filled mine out with extra English (journalism staff), art, economics, extra sciences, language (5 years of German), mock trial, and ill-advisedly, released time seminary, for which I got NO credit, but which was a requirement of my religion at the time. (If I was going to do it again, I'd take another history course, or more computers, in place of the religion class.)

[dendrophilous.livejournal.com]

That's a really hard question to answer, since the curriculum is set by the individual district.

I can tell you what I remember taking, but I took the courses laid out for college-bound students, so what I think of as requirements are in a lot of cases just suggestions.

We didn't have much choice - a lot of electives, yes, but you took four years of English and they were English I, II, III, IV. I don't think we had a creative writing class. We did have journalism and yearbook but they didn't count for English.

Same with history/social studies. We had three years: World (mostly European) history, USA history, and half a year each of economics and government. I've seen other districts where the students can choose from a variety of history classes.

The variety of courses students can choose to use for the requirements at some high schools always surprises me, because I went to what is considered a really large high school (close to 3000 kids), so you'd think we'd have more variety.

I took four years of math, ending with calculus; three years may have been the basic requirement.

I think three years of science (biology, chemistry, and physics or physical science) were required. I took a second year of physics, but couldn't fit in a second year of chemistry, to my disappointment.

Most people I knew (who were mostly college-bound) took at least two years of a foreign language - and that's the area where American schools are most lacking. No foreign language at all in most elementary schools (up to age 10-11), and very little in the junior highs (age 11-13 or 14). I did three years of Latin and couldn't fit the fourth into my schedule.

We could only take six classes a year, and we didn't have study hall or a lunch period to take an extra class, which some districts have.

Ohio's governor recently proposed statewide requirements that some people are complaining about: four years of math, four of English, three of lab-based science, three of social studies, two years of either foreign language, fine arts, career-tech, business or technology. I've heard more complaints about the math requirement than about the other stuff. I think those are all pretty minimal requirements.

[guinwhyte.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed at what they don't learn in school anymore. I spent part of Thanksgiving weekend listening to my niece complain about her Advanced Placement Government instructor, who is not actually teaching them anything -- he's showing a lot of films (no discussion afterward, nothing). They are not only not being prepared for the AP Exam (which gets you college credit if you score high), but not being taught a thing about American government. If that's the way it is for some advanced classes, I'm not sure I want to know what "normal" classes are like -- the ones that have more kids who "don't care" what they're learning and teachers that don't feel like making the effort.

I remember my AP Government teacher telling us we were the "last reading class" (this was back in '89); when we came to visit her a few years later, she simply stated that she had been right. (By the way, I scored 97% on this test.) I had several extracurriculars (theater/drama took up a huge amount of after-school time, as did Model U.N.), but my schoolwork didn't suffer for it because I knew that's what I was there for.

I have a lot of arguments against home schooling, most of them arising because home schoolers aren't regulated in most places. (We had a girl here who escaped from her home -- she'd been locked in her room and treated like an animal -- whose father had taken her out of school to "home school" her. No one had checked up on them.) There's no set curriculum, and no standards for what must be taught at home. In addition, there's not much room for learning the social concepts you learn in school (sometimes it's ugly, like bullying, but that happens in the adult world too).

Sorry to be ranting away on your journal. It just fries me to see what goes on in schools. Now we're in this phase of "testtesttest," which has some merit (it focuses teaching in the same direction) but leaves little time for anything except teaching for the test. Rote is fine for some things, but there needs to be room for actual thinking too.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

Rant away, m'dear. That's what it's for...

(especially when I largely AGREE with the entire rant...)

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

I had a very ordinary education - I went to a school that was in no way outstanding, and taught by teachers who, with a single exception, were pretty ordinary, ranging from the bored to the motivated, from the 'do it by the book' to the experimental ones. Facilities were ok, though not outstanding. And I got an education that has stood me in good stead since; a combination of necessary facts and thinking for myself.

A lot of the basic facts are boring. Rivers in South America. Countries in Africa. Nobody *needs* to know them, but it's pretty cool when you can listen to the news and know exactly (well, more or less) in what context 'a trial in Chile' is happening, both in geographic and historical dimensions. The more you know, the more things are connected. To live in this world, you *need* the basic knowledge imparted in the first ten years of school. Not everybody knows what they are good at or what they want to specialise in, and in giving youngsters a thorough education more doors remain open for them. Specialising at thirteen is ridiculous.

The German A-level equivalent involves having to _take_ a very wide selection of courses from *all* areas of study - language, sciences, arts, sport - but arriving at your final marks in a smaller (but still wide) selection - eight half-year marks from chemisty/physics/biology or something along those lines. I've always thought it worked well - pupils had to prove their overall proficiency, but could compensate for bad matches with teachers or plain bad luck, and could get most of their marks from the subjects they were best in.

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

I managed to sneak through the public education system and become fairly well educated. But I note I was on the AP tracks, for one thing, and liked to read a lot, for another.

(The love of reading really seems to correlate to a lot of extra knowledge that a lot of people, hearing, seem to view as somehow advanced information, something beyond their reach. I don't understand it. They could pick up an issue of Scientific American or the National Geographic or use their library card and have all the same information I do.)

The maths thing--people are ALWAYS surprised at how much math I have to use in my job. You can do my job (graphic designer, layout artist) without it*, but believe me, it's a lot less painstaking WITH IT.

*Without it: nothing more than basic grade school math. If you can't even use a ruler, or add fractions, then you might as well plump for a different occupation. I have no idea what that would be though.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

Fractions, for some reason, are tough to get across - you'd think that the concept of "a PART of something" would come naturally and then it's just a question of learning the rules but geez ask some folks whether one third of something is larger than one fifth of the same thing and you're going to get a lot of gibbering over that...

And I think you're right, concerning the reading. You learn a whole heap, and a lot more painlessly, by simply reading reading reading.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

One third is shorthand for one divided by three. The larger the number, the smaller the pieces get. What's to be confused about?

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

If you can't even use a ruler, or add fractions, then you might as well plump for a different occupation. I have no idea what that would be though

Not working in a warehouse, because there you run into inventories and labels...

Not being self-employed in *any* profession, however menial, because there you need to pay your own taxes.

If you're not basic computer literate, there are also few professions left.

[celtic-songster.livejournal.com]

Yep, I got a 97% on this little quiz and I also went through the AP track of American public edumacation. The love of reading was incredibly helpful, as one of the questions on this quiz was answered by the book "That Men Shall Be Free: The Story of the Magna Carta" sitting on my dorm room floor currently; I'm reading it for fun.

I'm terrible at maths and sciences, though. Never really understood why. Science is especially painful. I guess I can't think about those kinds of abstracts.

If I had the energy, I'd totally rant about public schools and the crap education in the U.S. today, like an elementary school near my house that won't let kindergarteners color anymore.

I hate the current education system. *cough mostly No Child Left Behind cough*

[debtaber.livejournal.com]

This discussion sparked me (the product of an American public education) to take the quiz and I actually surprised myself by scoring 100%. I sucked up all of the English, art and music courses I could in high school, did the advanced track in history and got through with the minimal science and math, mostly because I wound up with unenthusiastic teachers in those subjects. As an avid reader, I supplemented my own science education later on, as well as piecing together some of the math I had missed. Altogether, I know my education has gaps in it (they just happened to fall between the cracks on that quiz), but I received enough to function in the world, and enough interest in learning to keep at it.

Having worked in the public school system as adjunct arts faculty, I have to say that the current trend of pushing students into advanced classes they aren't ready for is one of the more appalling things I've seen. It makes the district statistics look better, but the kids get so frustrated by always feeling behind that they stop reading, writing and learning unless they have extraordinary support from their families. I ran into so many kids that took advanced level courses because their administration urged them into it, yet they were lacking the basic skills that underlie those courses and could hardly write a coherent essay, even on a subject they were interested in. I know there are many factors that go into creating a decent education system, and different students have different needs, but I think combining an approach which captures a student's interest with the basic knowledge needed to get by in the world is the best way to succeed. Getting this through the bureaucracy of American school systems and rewarding good teachers while educating those who are lacking is the part that we seem to be stumbling on.

I think that's a little more than two cents worth, but there it is.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Granted I graduated over 20 years ago (eep!) I suspect it's still perfectly possible to get a good education in most US public high schools. The question is how easy it is to esacpe without one, if you choose that route.